I know, it seems odd to blog about a conversation. But when you realize what our conversation was about then you might understand.
First, I should explain who Lanire is. A retired short-haul truck driver who retired after 45 years on the job - That's right! 45 years! He is black and has had many many children and has grand children. Lanire is very aware of the civil rights era and he's also very much involved with his church. He's an all around nice guy who is very liberal on his views.
The following conversation is not verbatim but it is surely what was discussed about proposition 8 in California. Proposition 8 changes the California Constitution to say "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." I am voting "NO" and I asked Lanire what he thought about it.
Lanire: Is that the marriage one? I'm voting yes.
Me: Why would you vote "yes"? Do you support marriage between brother and sister?
Lanire: Of course not, I'm voting "yes"
Me: Well you know that laws are written in the negative as in "shall not" or "may not" or "will not" because if you put in the constitution what is allowed then it can be looked at in a broader sense. They want to amend the constitution to say, "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." but they don't limit it to "those who are not related" so if you vote yes that means you support marriage between brother and sister or mother and son or father and daughter.
Lanire: I do not!
Me: Well you do support incest and marriage if you vote yes on 8.
Lanire: But I have to follow the bible and the bible says that men with men is an abomination.
Me: Well the bible says that you should not force your beliefs on others and that they have to come over to Christianity on their own and that forcing youur beliefs on someone else is sinful. So if you vote yes on prop 8 then you're going against the bible.
Lanire: But the government is telling me what to believe and I want to stop that... I believe in separation of church and state. The government should not tell me or my church what I can or cannot do.
Me: But if you vote yes on 8, that's what you are asking for.
Lanire: It is not!
Me: Suppose a church wants to marry two men or two women but the government says "no". Wouldn't that be the government telling a church what it can or cannot do?
Lanire: I'm black and can't stand the government taking away my rights or treating me like a second class citizen. My beliefs are sacred to me.
Me: You're right and I'm sure you remember the 60's and what we all fought for. They wanted to stop whites and blacks from marrying in some states, wasn't that horrible?
Lanire: Damn straight, unconscionable.
Me: Yet you want to do the same thing.
Lanire: No I don't!
Me: But if you forbid someone who loves each other from marrying just because of a physical characteristic that's exactly what you are doing. You're taking away the word black and inserting the word gay and trying to pass a law that continues discrimination!
Lanire: But marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman.
Me: Lanire, let's recap. You are a black, churchgoing man who believes in the rights of the individual and believe in the church. Yet, first, you want to allow marriage between a brother and sister. Second, you want to install discrimination into the California Constitution. Third, you want to allow the government to tell the church what it can or cannot do. And fourth, you want to go against the bible and force your beliefs on everyone when the bible clearly states that you're not supposed to.
Lanire: But if you let gays marry then why not brother and sister?
Me: And that's how we started this conversation.
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